The judges' comments came during a panel titled "Virtual Hearings: The COVID-19 Pandemic and Beyond," which kicked off the first day of Loyola Law School's two-day COVID & The Courts symposium.
Collin County Judge Emily Miskel from Texas and King County Superior Court Judge Sean O'Donnell from Washington both said they've permanently switched to holding most hearings and some trials virtually — even after local COVID-19 orders were lifted — due to virtual proceedings' many benefits.
Judge O'Donnell said virtual hearings have improved the safety of jurors, judges and attorneys, particularly since jurors and attorneys have been attacked outside the courthouse in Seattle, and many courthouses are in dangerous neighborhoods. He added that occasionally, jurors complain that they don't want to come to court for jury duty due to safety concerns.
The judge also noted that many of the family law and civil cases he oversees are "fraught with emotion and poor judgment," and physical distance can help keep the court, attorneys and parties safe.
"When I have a litigant who is upset and yelling, I can put him on mute. That's sort of a sea change," he said. "This is where society is, and it can be safer for people in a virtual setting to have their day in court, even if the format is a little different."
Both judges said remote hearings have also helped them streamline and reduce their heavy caseloads, which can number in the thousands, although Judge Miskel observed that attorneys seem to be less likely to settle early in litigation if they're allowed to attend hearings remotely.
"I think a good description of state court is it's the Wild West of the judiciary, just in terms of volume and pace," Judge O'Donnell said, adding, "We will never go back to the way we were doing business before the pandemic. I think that is a good thing."
Judge Miskel also wanted to debunk the notion that virtual court hearings negatively impact the due process rights of litigants. Since she's begun holding hearings via Zoom, the judge has seen more disabled and vulnerable litigants attend the proceedings virtually, she said.
"It's just been the opposite of what we've been afraid of," Judge Miskel said.
She noted that more people have access to a smartphone than a car, and many low income individuals who likely couldn't show up for in-person hearings before the pandemic because they either couldn't take time off work, had child care obligations or couldn't physically travel to the courthouse now attend the hearings.
She's also seeing more litigants and parties in litigation speak up during the virtual proceedings, which can help her better understand the facts of the case and the merits of the arguments, she said. For instance, some victims of domestic violence who may have shied away from speaking in front of a full courtroom and an alleged abuser are more willing to talk about their cases via Zoom, she said.
O'Donnell said he livestreams his trials on YouTube, and has made some technical mistakes — allowing for one proceeding to get "Zoom bombed" by a banjo player — but he's learned from the experiences.
"It's like the first time someone gets in a fight in your courtroom," he said. "It's okay. You get through it, and life goes on."
O'Donnell also said he "fully acknowledges" that many criminal proceedings should be in person in order to protect a defendant's constitutional rights, and he doesn't livestream certain disputes, like divorce trials in case an estranged spouse gets vindictive and manipulates the footage.
"Not everything has to be livestreamed," he said. "You have to be mindful that once you put it out on YouTube, it's out of your control."
But both judges emphasized that many of the problems and concerns people have with virtual proceedings can also happen in person, and it's up to skilled attorneys and judges to keep a close eye on participants in both virtual and in-person proceedings to ensure justice is administered and no foul play occurs.
"Something goes wrong in trials all the time," Judge Miskel said. "I've had people text witnesses on the stand in person. These are human problems, not technology problems. ... Sometimes it's the new girlfriend in the [courtroom] shouting answers to your question, and I have to be like, 'Sir, your girlfriend can't help you answer the question.'''
The judges also called on courts to adopt virtual jury selection proceedings to save time for everybody and make the jury selection process more equitable.
"There's wide opportunity to take advantage of this technology in ways that are more fair and administer justice," Judge O'Donnell said.
--Editing by Kristen Becker.
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